Thank you for the piece Simon. It reminds me of many experiences working in branding, and so it got me to thinking that many of your observations apply beyond the fine wine category.
By that I mean any wine that is branded (including price as a signal) to elevate its price above what is necessary to provide a reasonable rate of return to the producer. My personal, not even really tongue-in-cheek, definition of the goal of branding is "to earn the right, in the minds of your consumers, to abuse their loyalty as much as possible". Think Apple gouging consumers on price, paying scant attention to horrendous supply chain issues and completely taking the piss on peripherals...and consumers still can't wait to drop a month's salary on the next iPhone.
That seems to be the goal of fine wine towards the trophy hunters. It also seems to apply to many wines priced even in the £20-30 range in the UK. If one is a cynic one could say it is also going on with heavily branded £6 bottles, as the reasonable rate of return on that fermented probably-not-even-grape juice is, rightfully, zero.
I apologise if that is just a rant, but I thought I'd post it in case something in there was somehow helpful.
I disagree when it comes to wines in the £20 - £30 bracket. I suggest that - unfortunately - this is probably now the sweet spot for serious artisanal wines that are imported to the UK. This represents wines that the winemaker will be selling for between £8 - £12 wholesale. That is a more than fair price.
Bear in mind that a £20 bottle in the UK has a staggering £6 of taxes imposed on it (first subtract the VAT and then the duty of £2.67). So that same wine would theoretically retail for £15.82 in Portugal, £16.83 in France or £17.85 in Netherlands.
Thanks Simon, sorry I wasn't clear. I didn't mean to cast aspersions on all wines in the 20-30 bracket. Your point is well taken. I meant more that simply spending up doesn't help (a route many people I know use as a proxy for finding good wine) as there are still plenty of wines that fall foul of all the same problems. It seems a minefield for many, with plenty of brand-led abuse of consumers' expectations. Which brings to mind natural wine fairs' requirements to weedle out participants who are just dabbling in "natural" for brand positioning.
Right, I understand. Yep, price is never an absolute guide I guess.
Still, I think the best advice to a novice is still that if you want actual wine, you won't find it below about £12-£15 in the UK (or €12 where I live, in Netherlands).
Although I have been a columnist since 2006 for a journal called The World of Fine Wine, I have never felt any urge to define “fine” in vinous contexts. Nor, honestly, do I now.
But if pressed I would offer just this:
Fine wine is wine the experience of which prompts reflection on its aesthetic merit and its origins.
To which I suppose I should add the rider that I intend “aesthetic merit” to encompass both delight and deliciousness, and “reflection on its aesthetic merit and its origins” to encompass wonder.
Anything beyond that takes one in the direction of defining a canon (pretentious and needless) or a marketing sector (irrelevant to a wine’s intrinsic merit, and at least mildly distasteful to many of us wine lovers).
Yes, and I think this is where we get to another difference between the UK and the US. From discussions elsewhere I gleaned that maybe the correct term for what I'm talking about in the US would be "icon wines".
My whole shtick is that the term fine wine doesn't actually mean what it says on the tin. At least in the UK, it has a whole raft of other associations that have nothing to do with aesthetic merit, delight or deliciousness.
"Icons" does seem to better fit some of the discussion that came out of last year's Lech conference. (I attended in 2022 but not 2023.) But besides being pretentious if invites a lot of fruitless cogitation about what wines lead at the intersection of fashion, influence, and wine quality.
There's surely a difference between the 'fine' wines of LVMH and Miroirs for example in that Kagami isn't seeking to extract the maximum price possible. His wines are virtually inaccessible due to the secondary market and scarcity. Sadly, my one experience of them matches most of the classical elite bottles but there is a difference?
Yes, I think there is definitely a difference, and that's where Pauline's distinction between luxury wine and fine wine is useful.
But the challenge is we are dealing with market distortion here. So my schtick is that it doesn't really matter what's in the bottle. If it gets dubbed fine wine, it will become unaffordable and exclusive, like it or not.
Dom Perignon is fine wine? Intestine, especially when one has seen the grapes and the press it is pressed in. You are so right in this case - fine wine is commerce !!
Great
I think this is the first time I can say you're a woman of few word.
Excelente artículo. Hay una cancion de un artista Argentino que refiere a una frase de uno de nuestros íconos literarios, Jorge Luis Borges: "El Lujo es Vulgaridad" https://www.losandes.com.ar/estilo/nada-es-sagrado-el-indio-solari-y-borges-hablan-del-lujo-y-la-vulgaridad/
Thank you Andres, very interesting parallel to cite.
More than 'fine' view on this subject, thank you.
Thanks!
Thank you for the piece Simon. It reminds me of many experiences working in branding, and so it got me to thinking that many of your observations apply beyond the fine wine category.
By that I mean any wine that is branded (including price as a signal) to elevate its price above what is necessary to provide a reasonable rate of return to the producer. My personal, not even really tongue-in-cheek, definition of the goal of branding is "to earn the right, in the minds of your consumers, to abuse their loyalty as much as possible". Think Apple gouging consumers on price, paying scant attention to horrendous supply chain issues and completely taking the piss on peripherals...and consumers still can't wait to drop a month's salary on the next iPhone.
That seems to be the goal of fine wine towards the trophy hunters. It also seems to apply to many wines priced even in the £20-30 range in the UK. If one is a cynic one could say it is also going on with heavily branded £6 bottles, as the reasonable rate of return on that fermented probably-not-even-grape juice is, rightfully, zero.
I apologise if that is just a rant, but I thought I'd post it in case something in there was somehow helpful.
I disagree when it comes to wines in the £20 - £30 bracket. I suggest that - unfortunately - this is probably now the sweet spot for serious artisanal wines that are imported to the UK. This represents wines that the winemaker will be selling for between £8 - £12 wholesale. That is a more than fair price.
Bear in mind that a £20 bottle in the UK has a staggering £6 of taxes imposed on it (first subtract the VAT and then the duty of £2.67). So that same wine would theoretically retail for £15.82 in Portugal, £16.83 in France or £17.85 in Netherlands.
Thanks Simon, sorry I wasn't clear. I didn't mean to cast aspersions on all wines in the 20-30 bracket. Your point is well taken. I meant more that simply spending up doesn't help (a route many people I know use as a proxy for finding good wine) as there are still plenty of wines that fall foul of all the same problems. It seems a minefield for many, with plenty of brand-led abuse of consumers' expectations. Which brings to mind natural wine fairs' requirements to weedle out participants who are just dabbling in "natural" for brand positioning.
Right, I understand. Yep, price is never an absolute guide I guess.
Still, I think the best advice to a novice is still that if you want actual wine, you won't find it below about £12-£15 in the UK (or €12 where I live, in Netherlands).
Preach brother.
“It’s a social lubricant, which allows people to come together and relax. The buzz stimulates conversation, conviviality and happiness.”
Remember a few years ago when these same people pretended they wanted to diversify? Make wine more accessible for marginalized communities. Lol.
The place of the conference alone… Lech…
I know! Still, Lech does at least have a long association with wine. And they even had some off-events for natural wine last December.
Bravo, Simon! To the point and movingly written.
Although I have been a columnist since 2006 for a journal called The World of Fine Wine, I have never felt any urge to define “fine” in vinous contexts. Nor, honestly, do I now.
But if pressed I would offer just this:
Fine wine is wine the experience of which prompts reflection on its aesthetic merit and its origins.
To which I suppose I should add the rider that I intend “aesthetic merit” to encompass both delight and deliciousness, and “reflection on its aesthetic merit and its origins” to encompass wonder.
Anything beyond that takes one in the direction of defining a canon (pretentious and needless) or a marketing sector (irrelevant to a wine’s intrinsic merit, and at least mildly distasteful to many of us wine lovers).
Yes, and I think this is where we get to another difference between the UK and the US. From discussions elsewhere I gleaned that maybe the correct term for what I'm talking about in the US would be "icon wines".
My whole shtick is that the term fine wine doesn't actually mean what it says on the tin. At least in the UK, it has a whole raft of other associations that have nothing to do with aesthetic merit, delight or deliciousness.
"Icons" does seem to better fit some of the discussion that came out of last year's Lech conference. (I attended in 2022 but not 2023.) But besides being pretentious if invites a lot of fruitless cogitation about what wines lead at the intersection of fashion, influence, and wine quality.
There's surely a difference between the 'fine' wines of LVMH and Miroirs for example in that Kagami isn't seeking to extract the maximum price possible. His wines are virtually inaccessible due to the secondary market and scarcity. Sadly, my one experience of them matches most of the classical elite bottles but there is a difference?
Yes, I think there is definitely a difference, and that's where Pauline's distinction between luxury wine and fine wine is useful.
But the challenge is we are dealing with market distortion here. So my schtick is that it doesn't really matter what's in the bottle. If it gets dubbed fine wine, it will become unaffordable and exclusive, like it or not.
Dom Perignon is fine wine? Intestine, especially when one has seen the grapes and the press it is pressed in. You are so right in this case - fine wine is commerce !!
Great!